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This thread was inevitable really. My particular favorite so far some Dublin club bars turn over more then some counties.
I would ask a couple of questions though beyond the dogma and popular tabloid narrative?
Is there an accumulative figure in terms of funding on a county by county basis, not just games development funding. But a figure that is inclusive of say the infrastructure funding given to counties? For example Kerry were given 2 million for the COE. Cork 10s of millions for PUC, Mayo had to be bailed out to the tune of millions. Additionally in there a figure that takes into account what counties receive from coaching from their provincial councils on top of their games development money. I would point out that Dublin are the only county that are excluded from receiving this grant towards coaching and the Dublin county board fund there own.
So the popular narrative that Dublin receive the largest share of funding is very misleading. They receive the largest share of games development funding which we know gets no where near senior inter county teams. In fact Dublin spent less then their intercounty opponents in this years all Ireland final on their senior teams, when you consider we ran strong underage teams in all underage football and hurling, senior and ladies to the latter stages of competitions thats pretty good.
from a facility point of view i am always struck by how many inter county players form outside of Dublin study, work and train in Dublin, dont Mayo and Donegal run training camps in Dublin. Sigerson is a perfect example the amount of players from other counties who play for Dublin universities in incredible. Now when people crib about facilities in Dublin its very disingenuous given that other counties players are suckling at them to. The Dublin County Board have an issue no other county has and that is catering for an expat population from other counties. Do you think these lads turn up at these places and are turned away - of course not.
I am happy to discuss finance with anyone who can provide an accumulative figure of games development funding, infrastructure funding and provincial county funding. else wise anything else is Dogma.
I did a little analaylise on finance and population a while back there are a few counties that are operating a percentage way beyond their comparative population at a similar percentage to Dublin, i wont name them as is divisive. Galway and Down i think were the ones hardest down by broadly.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 29/08/2017 09:38:10
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Listen the opening posts have raised some pertinent questions and is something that probably needs to be looked into and discussed, but as Peter Canavan said on The Last Word last night it's really a discussion for the winter time. I feel it's unfair for it to be raised at this point when the championship is still in full swing, especially as some are using it to try and dilute the achievements of what is an incredible group of skilled, dedicated, well trained & well managed group of footballers.
benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 29/08/2017 09:43:07
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Love all this stuff. Always a sign Dublin are doing well when this tripe gets re-hashed! Jealousy is an awful affliction.
GaaGaa78 (UK) - Posts: 285 - 29/08/2017 09:51:02
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Can each poster who's unhappy with Dublin GAA funding please say what an adequate, proportional, funding for their own county should be and how that money would be used to make them more competitive in the All Ireland championship?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 29/08/2017 09:58:28
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Replying To as_ky: "What I would like to see is the returns Dublin get from playing in Croker Park. How much of the cost of opening croker is picked up by the Dubs and how much of the gate receipts do the Dubs take home. I imagine Dublin don't have to contribute to the upkeep of croker either.
Surely a start towards parity would be for the Dubs to have their own stadium. Unfair that they get to play their all year along with other financial benefits they receive.
Look, this Dublin team is fantastic and as much as it pains me to say it are definetly within the 2 greatest teams of all time and they still have more to come. The argument is more about the future of the GAA, if the trend continues the way it is the gap between Dublin and the rest will just widen further and inevitably interest will just be lost across the country in the sport" Tell me...how did you feel about Kerrys dominance in the 70s and 80s. What was it? 8 titles in 12 seasons?
DannyMcA (Dublin) - Posts: 260 - 29/08/2017 10:05:04
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Replying To TheUsername: "This thread was inevitable really. My particular favorite so far some Dublin club bars turn over more then some counties.
I would ask a couple of questions though beyond the dogma and popular tabloid narrative?
Is there an accumulative figure in terms of funding on a county by county basis, not just games development funding. But a figure that is inclusive of say the infrastructure funding given to counties? For example Kerry were given 2 million for the COE. Cork 10s of millions for PUC, Mayo had to be bailed out to the tune of millions. Additionally in there a figure that takes into account what counties receive from coaching from their provincial councils on top of their games development money. I would point out that Dublin are the only county that are excluded from receiving this grant towards coaching and the Dublin county board fund there own.
So the popular narrative that Dublin receive the largest share of funding is very misleading. They receive the largest share of games development funding which we know gets no where near senior inter county teams. In fact Dublin spent less then their intercounty opponents in this years all Ireland final on their senior teams, when you consider we ran strong underage teams in all underage football and hurling, senior and ladies to the latter stages of competitions thats pretty good.
from a facility point of view i am always struck by how many inter county players form outside of Dublin study, work and train in Dublin, dont Mayo and Donegal run training camps in Dublin. Sigerson is a perfect example the amount of players from other counties who play for Dublin universities in incredible. Now when people crib about facilities in Dublin its very disingenuous given that other counties players are suckling at them to. The Dublin County Board have an issue no other county has and that is catering for an expat population from other counties. Do you think these lads turn up at these places and are turned away - of course not.
I am happy to discuss finance with anyone who can provide an accumulative figure of games development funding, infrastructure funding and provincial county funding. else wise anything else is Dogma.
I did a little analaylise on finance and population a while back there are a few counties that are operating a percentage way beyond their comparative population at a similar percentage to Dublin, i wont name them as is divisive. Galway and Down i think were the ones hardest down by broadly." Ssshhhhh now nobody wants to discuss facts. They prefer to assume!
DannyMcA (Dublin) - Posts: 260 - 29/08/2017 10:10:02
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Replying To heresam: "i think ll youll find that mayo per head have the greatest funding in the gaa. Google it.
Its funny how you have O Rourke splitting dublin and then yet another meath poster coming on to moan.
Why would anyone invest more money in Meath when your underage strucute is so bad, your team always under-performs these days. Carlow are better prepared than Meath.
Truth hurts but there you go...." If our underage structures are so bad then how did our U17's beat Dublin twice this year and our minors only lost after ET to ye so that argument has it flaws. Much can be said about other counties should get their house in order and yes agree with that but also the Dublin hurlers are perhaps the biggest culprits considering the money and assets they have.
AthboyCelt (Meath) - Posts: 147 - 29/08/2017 10:12:24
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Below is from Dublin's ''blue wave'' a strategy 2011-2017
3.9 » Financial pressure and constraints
It is clear to the Strategic Committee that the financial resources that are
currently available to the Dublin County Committee are inadequate to
enable Dublin GAA to give effect to the initiatives identified as appropriate
in this strategic review. The County Committee has traditionally operated a
balanced budget with all revenues (which have been running at €5.2
million per year) being fully re-invested in current organisational and
development initiatives. The scale and nature of the challenge today can be
gauged from the following observations:
The total cost of the Dublin/SRC games development programme
has been running at c €3m per year which has traditionally been
part funded by the Irish Sports Council (€900k), Dublin Clubs
(€860k), Central Council (€600k) and Leinster Council (€260k),
with the balance being provided by the Dublin County Committee.
Dublin County Committee has a high dependency on the continued
year-on-year financial support of the aforementioned agencies and
GAA bodies to continue the SRC programme.
Dublin County Committee faces material downside risks from
reduced gate receipts, affiliation fees, advertising revenues and
fundraising capacity due to the economic downturn.
Dublin's main source of revenue is from its principle commercial
sponsor, Vodafone. Secondary and tertiary sponsorship and
partnering arrangements have traditionally be informal and of
moderate scale - it is considered that there is capacity to increase
revenues from commercial sponsorship but this would require an
increased investment on the part of the Dublin County Committee in
brand development and in the employment of a professional
commercial development team.
A STRATEGY FOR DUBLIN GAA 2011-2017
Dublin has no material surplus assets which could be monetised for
re-investment although consideration could be given to the possible
sale of O'Toole Park - although the realisation potential of O'Toole
Park is limited given the current state of the property market.
With the exception of a trial venture with Croke Park for the 2011
Dublin Spring Series. Dublin, like all counties, has not traditionally
benefited in any meaningful respect in gate receipts ffrom senior
inter-county games despite attracting large attendances. This clearly
fails to align responsibility for promoting the games with the
resultant increased income streams.
Aside from gate receipts, the potential return to Dublin GAA from
investing in the Dublin brand is limited as many of the valuable
rights including TV, Media and Sponsorship revenues derived from
increased brand recognition structurally accrue to other units within
the GAA. The subsequent re-distribution of such revenues as
between provinces and counties generally doesn't take account of
the scale and strategic significance of Dublin which in turn
mitigates against Dublin's ability to promote the GAA in the capital.
The structural imbalance inherent in the traditional approach to sharing
revenues within the GAA has been highlighted by Dublin's experience in
2011. The success of Dublin's inter-county teams in both football and
hurling in 2011 has resulted in a significantly increased organisational cost
directly linked to participation in increased matches including finals and
related team expenses. This increased cost is expected to be considerably
more than the related success-based revenues, so that rather than success
being financially beneficial to the County Board, it is expected to entail an
incremental cost.
redbomb (Tyrone) - Posts: 167 - 29/08/2017 10:25:48
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The amount of anti Dublin begrudgery threads on here beggars belief.
It's so unfair on a brilliant sports team.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 29/08/2017 10:35:05
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Replying To Laois76: "The Leinster Council chairman is from Carlow, Jim Bolger, and lives 3 miles from me.
My nephew got to play in Croke Park, at 6, last year in a tournament against teams from Wexford. This is commonplace. Anyway to a child of 11 or 12 playing in O'Connor Park Tullamore, O'Moore Park, Salthill etc seems almost the same as Croke Park with their stands and well laid out pitches. At any rate they're only playing across the side of the pitch.
I don't know if Peter Canavan's son Darragh played in Croke Park before but if not it didn't hinder him Sunday. I think it's in the genes and he practices his game a lot.
This rubbish about Dublin being a professional team. Jack McCaffrey is studying to be a doctor, plays with UCD etc. A professional under contract wouldn't be allowed do that!" On Jack McCaffrey , cycles to training cycles home seen it with my own eyes this year up in DCU , but hey lets not let something like that get in the way of a nice rant.
As for the person who said some Dublin clubs bars make blah blah blah , with not one shred of evidence . my club operates the bar completely part-time only day it opens fully is Sunday , this is the case with the majority of Gaa bars
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 29/08/2017 10:57:40
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Replying To redbomb: "Below is from Dublin's ''blue wave'' a strategy 2011-2017
3.9 » Financial pressure and constraints
It is clear to the Strategic Committee that the financial resources that are
currently available to the Dublin County Committee are inadequate to
enable Dublin GAA to give effect to the initiatives identified as appropriate
in this strategic review. The County Committee has traditionally operated a
balanced budget with all revenues (which have been running at €5.2
million per year) being fully re-invested in current organisational and
development initiatives. The scale and nature of the challenge today can be
gauged from the following observations:
The total cost of the Dublin/SRC games development programme
has been running at c €3m per year which has traditionally been
part funded by the Irish Sports Council (€900k), Dublin Clubs
(€860k), Central Council (€600k) and Leinster Council (€260k),
with the balance being provided by the Dublin County Committee.
Dublin County Committee has a high dependency on the continued
year-on-year financial support of the aforementioned agencies and
GAA bodies to continue the SRC programme.
Dublin County Committee faces material downside risks from
reduced gate receipts, affiliation fees, advertising revenues and
fundraising capacity due to the economic downturn.
Dublin's main source of revenue is from its principle commercial
sponsor, Vodafone. Secondary and tertiary sponsorship and
partnering arrangements have traditionally be informal and of
moderate scale - it is considered that there is capacity to increase
revenues from commercial sponsorship but this would require an
increased investment on the part of the Dublin County Committee in
brand development and in the employment of a professional
commercial development team.
A STRATEGY FOR DUBLIN GAA 2011-2017
Dublin has no material surplus assets which could be monetised for
re-investment although consideration could be given to the possible
sale of O'Toole Park - although the realisation potential of O'Toole
Park is limited given the current state of the property market.
With the exception of a trial venture with Croke Park for the 2011
Dublin Spring Series. Dublin, like all counties, has not traditionally
benefited in any meaningful respect in gate receipts ffrom senior
inter-county games despite attracting large attendances. This clearly
fails to align responsibility for promoting the games with the
resultant increased income streams.
Aside from gate receipts, the potential return to Dublin GAA from
investing in the Dublin brand is limited as many of the valuable
rights including TV, Media and Sponsorship revenues derived from
increased brand recognition structurally accrue to other units within
the GAA. The subsequent re-distribution of such revenues as
between provinces and counties generally doesn't take account of
the scale and strategic significance of Dublin which in turn
mitigates against Dublin's ability to promote the GAA in the capital.
The structural imbalance inherent in the traditional approach to sharing
revenues within the GAA has been highlighted by Dublin's experience in
2011. The success of Dublin's inter-county teams in both football and
hurling in 2011 has resulted in a significantly increased organisational cost
directly linked to participation in increased matches including finals and
related team expenses. This increased cost is expected to be considerably
more than the related success-based revenues, so that rather than success
being financially beneficial to the County Board, it is expected to entail an
incremental cost." Well at least you provided the information, it will probably kill off the arguments though, but well done
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 29/08/2017 11:18:17
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Replying To Dubfire: "Am I right in assuming Cork should also be split in two seeing as they have more GAA clubs than Dublin to choose their players from?
Also, Mayo spent more money than Dublin last year. Will this be considered or conveniently ignored because it doesn't suit the anti-Dublin agenda?" Of course Mayo spent more money than Dublin last year and I would expect that to be the case for almost every team that reaches at least a semi final for a number of reasons:
1. They have travel expense to and from games on a regular basis many of which would include an overnight hotel stay - Dublin had 4 games away from home last year (3 league and 1 championship) while Mayo had 9 (4 league and 5 championship including a trip to London). Add in the fact that Mayo played 2 extra games than Dublin in league and championship
2. Mayo have the travel expense of getting players to and from training on a regular basis - many Mayo players are situated away from home (12 located in Dublin this year) and need to be transported to and from training on a regular basis. Kerry and Kilkenny as far as I know are the only teams apart from Dublin are the only teams to have all their players located within 30 miles of their training base.
3. Most other counties have to maintain a stadium for use on a regular basis (albeit some don't do it that well) - Dublin don't have the same requirement as any other county in this regard as they play the majority of their games in Croke Park.
razor425 (Roscommon) - Posts: 45 - 29/08/2017 11:18:50
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How come we heard none of this begrudgery when Kilkenny were steamrolling all before it winning 11 titles alone this century, Before 2011 Dublin had won 1 All Ireland in 28 years!!!. People forget that there were and probably still are large parts of Dublin where the GAA had failed to get any traction. The reason that there are 4 or 5 Super clubs in South Dublin is solely down to the fact that there was little GAA there up to the 1990s. Cuala are from Dalkey and I doubt 10% of resident had heard of them before the year 2000. There are many committed GAA folks soldiering for years keeping the games alive in mostly deprived areas of the city. Think of Kevins hurling club flying the flag for hurling in the Liberties or O'Connell boys now the only GAA club left in the North inner city. Its not all mercs and BMWs in the car park at training as some seem to think. THe GAA did decide to aid Dublin at school and underage level as the competition from Soccer and Rugby was and is intense anmd it does seem to have paid dividends. The snobbery of many country GAA people towards is a bit hard to take.
At the end of the day this a special team and yet the have won only one of their All Irelands by more than 1 point! Hardly a massive dominance now is it? Like all great teams one day it will cease being great and other teams will catch and beat them. That could be only 3 weeks away...although I would be surprised.
Manstein (Roscommon) - Posts: 43 - 29/08/2017 11:25:34
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Replying To Laois76: "The amount of anti Dublin begrudgery threads on here beggars belief.
It's so unfair on a brilliant sports team." It's welcoming that many like yourself from other counties see these threads for what they are ( as bad as the 'Dublin propaganda' thread).
Reality is that if Tyrone had won on Sunday, as some called in the build up posts , then this thread would not be posted.Instead it would be how overated Dublin are, not as unbeatable as they thought were etc. Will be the same for the final. Some will rightly give Mayo a chance based on the logic that they've been very close to Dublin in recent years and have hit form at the right time. However if Dublin win it, then instead of acknowledging the 3 in a row achievement , there will be the usual threads of this type from those who hang to these snippets to undermine a great sporting achievement.
poguemahone (Dublin) - Posts: 365 - 29/08/2017 11:28:47
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Please just stop, im sick and tired of people giving out about dublin every 2 seconds, there the best team in the country at the moment, simple as that, stop being bitter, i personally think Dublin are a joy to watch, obviously i dont want to see them dominating, but that the way things are right now, every team has there period, im sure it wont last forever
PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 29/08/2017 11:39:27
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In fairness I though Colm O'Rourke made a great point and it's a point I've made my self in the past that Dublin having on 1 intercounty team to cater for 1.5 million people is wrong.
There should be 2/3 teams in the capital to give more fellas a chance to play intercounty football and it wouldn't weaken Dublin that much at all.
The GAA are doing a disservice to a lot of its members by having only one team in Dublin .
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 29/08/2017 11:48:06
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Replying To TheUsername: "This thread was inevitable really. My particular favorite so far some Dublin club bars turn over more then some counties.
I would ask a couple of questions though beyond the dogma and popular tabloid narrative?
Is there an accumulative figure in terms of funding on a county by county basis, not just games development funding. But a figure that is inclusive of say the infrastructure funding given to counties? For example Kerry were given 2 million for the COE. Cork 10s of millions for PUC, Mayo had to be bailed out to the tune of millions. Additionally in there a figure that takes into account what counties receive from coaching from their provincial councils on top of their games development money. I would point out that Dublin are the only county that are excluded from receiving this grant towards coaching and the Dublin county board fund there own.
So the popular narrative that Dublin receive the largest share of funding is very misleading. They receive the largest share of games development funding which we know gets no where near senior inter county teams. In fact Dublin spent less then their intercounty opponents in this years all Ireland final on their senior teams, when you consider we ran strong underage teams in all underage football and hurling, senior and ladies to the latter stages of competitions thats pretty good.
from a facility point of view i am always struck by how many inter county players form outside of Dublin study, work and train in Dublin, dont Mayo and Donegal run training camps in Dublin. Sigerson is a perfect example the amount of players from other counties who play for Dublin universities in incredible. Now when people crib about facilities in Dublin its very disingenuous given that other counties players are suckling at them to. The Dublin County Board have an issue no other county has and that is catering for an expat population from other counties. Do you think these lads turn up at these places and are turned away - of course not.
I am happy to discuss finance with anyone who can provide an accumulative figure of games development funding, infrastructure funding and provincial county funding. else wise anything else is Dogma.
I did a little analaylise on finance and population a while back there are a few counties that are operating a percentage way beyond their comparative population at a similar percentage to Dublin, i wont name them as is divisive. Galway and Down i think were the ones hardest down by broadly." "some Dublin club bars turn over more then some counties."
Yeah that's a great one :) . A lot of club bar are actually struggling . Such as Peregrines , lot of effort to keep it a float. This the Eric Lowndes club and he is a good example to get rid of the myth that this Dublin team is based on finances. The stand out talented player at a modest club as a minor. Pencilled in as a potential to make it to the senior squad but had to work, on his own time, to reach the desired levels. He did that with no financial aid, just down to earth hard graft and determination. Still, some will always choose to ignore these grass roots ethics that apply to Dublin the same as everyone else.
poguemahone (Dublin) - Posts: 365 - 29/08/2017 12:07:15
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Replying To AthboyCelt: "If our underage structures are so bad then how did our U17's beat Dublin twice this year and our minors only lost after ET to ye so that argument has it flaws. Much can be said about other counties should get their house in order and yes agree with that but also the Dublin hurlers are perhaps the biggest culprits considering the money and assets they have." Your post actually sums up the biggest problem that your county has and the biggest impediment to progress. Everything you do or achieve is only judged against what Dublin do. There is no point saying that you beat Dublin at U17. Tyrone are the benchmark there, or Roscommon as the beaten finalists. Same way that Kerry and Derry are the teams to measure yourself against in Minor, not Dublin.
The constant obsession with beating Dublin, or when that can't be done then making excuses for why not, is what is undermining any meaningful, long term progression for a number of counties, especially in Leinster.
Yes, Dublin do invest hugely in games development, but it is carefully targeted and structured investment, and that is the route the Dublin county board chose to take instead of big capital investment projects 15-20 years ago. It was a choice, and perhaps one that others would be wise to consider. At the end of the day success in football or hurling will be achieved by what's put in on the pitch, not what's built beside it.
AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 29/08/2017 12:28:29
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Normally I wouldn't pay much attention to these threads but one thing from the Dublin and Tyrone match which I thought was absolutely frightening was the fitness levels of Dublin. I mean they must be the fittest team to ever take to a gaelic football field and are a professional team in all but name. Of course they have the best footballers as well which helps.
The GAA need to somehow look at pumping more money into the lesser counties, otherwise the gap will just widen. The way things are going isn't going to do Dublin any good either, they have no competitive game until the All-Ireland final.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1873 - 29/08/2017 12:31:14
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Replying To Manstein: "How come we heard none of this begrudgery when Kilkenny were steamrolling all before it winning 11 titles alone this century, Before 2011 Dublin had won 1 All Ireland in 28 years!!!. People forget that there were and probably still are large parts of Dublin where the GAA had failed to get any traction. The reason that there are 4 or 5 Super clubs in South Dublin is solely down to the fact that there was little GAA there up to the 1990s. Cuala are from Dalkey and I doubt 10% of resident had heard of them before the year 2000. There are many committed GAA folks soldiering for years keeping the games alive in mostly deprived areas of the city. Think of Kevins hurling club flying the flag for hurling in the Liberties or O'Connell boys now the only GAA club left in the North inner city. Its not all mercs and BMWs in the car park at training as some seem to think. THe GAA did decide to aid Dublin at school and underage level as the competition from Soccer and Rugby was and is intense anmd it does seem to have paid dividends. The snobbery of many country GAA people towards is a bit hard to take.
At the end of the day this a special team and yet the have won only one of their All Irelands by more than 1 point! Hardly a massive dominance now is it? Like all great teams one day it will cease being great and other teams will catch and beat them. That could be only 3 weeks away...although I would be surprised." If we could use emojis here, you'd be getting an array of thumbs up and clapping hands for that post!
GaaGaa78 (UK) - Posts: 285 - 29/08/2017 12:34:09
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