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Replying To MesAmis: "You'd hope that the Cork fans flying the Condeferate Flag are doing so in ignorance rather than making any wider political point.
In this day and age anyone flying that flag are either incredibly ignorant or racist. It's as simple as that.
It was the flag of the Confederacy which wished to protect an individual States' right to allow one group of people to own and enslave another race of people because they felt that that race was inferior or subhuman. The Confederacy felt so strongly about their State's rights to enslave other humans that they started a war over it. That is what that flag represents. There has been numerous attempts at revionist history to downplay the roll of slavery in the American Civil war but it's all BS.
It was the flag of people who thought themselves so superior to another race that they had the right to enslave those people.
The only reason I can fathom that anyone would wish to fly a flag such as the Confederate Flag is that they are completely ignorant of its meaning.
Hopefully we do not see it again in the GAA." All good points but perhaps they are just major fans of the Dukes of Hazzard?
seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 16/08/2017 11:18:06
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Replying To Ulsterman: "The GAA MUST ban this flag from EVERY ground on the island. It is a symbol of racist, white supremacists and don't insult us with this naive, 'we fly it only because it's red and stands for the Cork 'rebels". This fools no one. There shouldn't even be a debate given the horrible rhetoric Trump is coming out with defending these White KKK morons. Anyone flying it should be thrown out of the GAA if they are a member." Utter rubbish. The Confederate flag stands for sacrifice and free will. 30 to 40,000 irish born men fought under that banner. Very few of them slave owners. It's a complicated issue and needs a nuanced debate.
I find the flying of the Palestinian flag annoying. If friends in Israel who were victims of Palestian terror. I'm not demanding that the leftie brigade stop flying it though
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 16/08/2017 11:20:52
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Replying To OLLIE: "The Aryan brotherhood which is a white supremacist prison gang in the US use the Shamrock has one of the symbols. Should we ban all GAA clubs that use the Shamrock that has that as their club crest?" Nope the shamrock is also a symbol of Ireland.
The confederate flag is unambiguously a white supremacist symbol.
It only remains today as a flag bc of white supremacy.
They adopt the flag bc it was the flag of the confederate who fought against abolition.
The only context where it's not a symbol of white supremacy is the use by Cork fans who call it the rebel flag. That explanation doesn't even remove the oppressive connotation fully. Why is it called the rebel flag, what rebellion does it refer to? Hmm not great answers to those questions are they.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 16/08/2017 11:22:01
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Replying To MesAmis: "There's a huge difference and surely you know that.
The Confederate flag has represented white supremecy since the 1860s.
The shamrock hasn't." Mes Amis I am only asking a question? No need to get your knickers in a twist.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 16/08/2017 11:31:15
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Replying To bloodyban: "Utter rubbish. The Confederate flag stands for sacrifice and free will. 30 to 40,000 irish born men fought under that banner. Very few of them slave owners. It's a complicated issue and needs a nuanced debate.
I find the flying of the Palestinian flag annoying. If friends in Israel who were victims of Palestian terror. I'm not demanding that the leftie brigade stop flying it though" No it is utter rubbish to suggest that the Confederate flag stands for sacrifice and free will. What sacrifice were they making? What free will were they fighting for? The free will to impose their will on a group and treat them and their descendants as personal property, taking away that groups free will. And so what if thousands of Irishmen fought under that flag and the vast majority were not slaveholders? Big deal? The vast majority of all soldiers in the Confederacy were not slaveholders as they would have been too poor to own slaves. It still doesn't take away that they were fighting for the right of white people to hold black people in perpetual bondage.
By all means though, please elaborate on the nuance you would like to bring to the debate.
the_walls (Mayo) - Posts: 495 - 16/08/2017 11:32:02
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Replying To Whammo86: "Nope the shamrock is also a symbol of Ireland.
The confederate flag is unambiguously a white supremacist symbol.
It only remains today as a flag bc of white supremacy.
They adopt the flag bc it was the flag of the confederate who fought against abolition.
The only context where it's not a symbol of white supremacy is the use by Cork fans who call it the rebel flag. That explanation doesn't even remove the oppressive connotation fully. Why is it called the rebel flag, what rebellion does it refer to? Hmm not great answers to those questions are they." Its also a symbol for the Aryan Brotherhood. By the way the harp is the national symbol of Ireland.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 16/08/2017 11:33:58
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Replying To bloodyban: "Utter rubbish. The Confederate flag stands for sacrifice and free will. 30 to 40,000 irish born men fought under that banner. Very few of them slave owners. It's a complicated issue and needs a nuanced debate.
I find the flying of the Palestinian flag annoying. If friends in Israel who were victims of Palestian terror. I'm not demanding that the leftie brigade stop flying it though" What do you find particularly annoying about the Palestinian flag? The fact that they have one and aspire to independence rather than living in a giant concentration camp, erected by your mates?
MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/08/2017 11:34:42
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Is the 'supporter' who brings this flag to games ashamed of the Cork flag?
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 16/08/2017 11:35:57
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Replying To bloodyban: "Utter rubbish. The Confederate flag stands for sacrifice and free will. 30 to 40,000 irish born men fought under that banner. Very few of them slave owners. It's a complicated issue and needs a nuanced debate.
I find the flying of the Palestinian flag annoying. If friends in Israel who were victims of Palestian terror. I'm not demanding that the leftie brigade stop flying it though" Oh and the original swastika symbol was one of peace. Have you got one of those flying from your roof as well to keep the confederate and butchers apron ones company? Actually, don't answer that, I don't want to know
MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/08/2017 11:36:34
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Cork- a southern county who play in red, also capital of the South of Ireland, nickname the "Rebel County" flies a Confederate rebel red flag. What is the big deal. Thousands of Cork men fought for the Confederacy also.
https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/patrickroberts/the-irish-in-the-american-civil-war-150000-in-union-army-25000-in-confederate-119724549-238079561
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 16/08/2017 11:50:24
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Replying To the_walls: "No it is utter rubbish to suggest that the Confederate flag stands for sacrifice and free will. What sacrifice were they making? What free will were they fighting for? The free will to impose their will on a group and treat them and their descendants as personal property, taking away that groups free will. And so what if thousands of Irishmen fought under that flag and the vast majority were not slaveholders? Big deal? The vast majority of all soldiers in the Confederacy were not slaveholders as they would have been too poor to own slaves. It still doesn't take away that they were fighting for the right of white people to hold black people in perpetual bondage.
By all means though, please elaborate on the nuance you would like to bring to the debate." You're wasting your time my friend. So am I. He's got a reaction. I felt annoyed with myself for responding but sometimes you just have to scratch an itch.
MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/08/2017 11:53:23
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Replying To OLLIE: "Mes Amis I am only asking a question? No need to get your knickers in a twist." I'm only answering your question Ollie.
If my answer was a bit curt it's because of the surprise at having to answer such a question.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 16/08/2017 11:53:48
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Replying To Whammo86: "Do you right wingers take a class in whataboutery, because that's always your argument. Either that or putting words in people's mouths.
It isn't about appeasing people who are offended by something. You're right if you always bowed to someone's offence you wouldn't do anything.
It's not all or nothing though, I think as a society we're able to make judgements on what symbols are and are not appropriate.
The only thing that matters in what the symbol itself stands for. The Confederate flag is a racist symbol, it's not even that subjective. In the context of Cork supporters use it is not racism but it's still a racist symbol being brought into a GAA ground.
I think we can quite easily ban outright racist symbols without worrying about falling down some super liberal rabbit hole just yet." Lol, come on Whammo, I know you are someone who isn't afraid to speak his mind but labelling people in this thread as right wingers & racists is a step too far especially when nobody is condoning what's happening in the States. Unfortunately your missing the points been made & appear to be happy to use Cork supporters use of the Confederate flag which most regard as been naively used as a political cause. When as appears, that the aim of removing this is achieved what will be next ? Don't think that those who operate the PC agenda haven't another target lined up in the Gaa, in fact many of us know that this is building towards a movement against our national flag & anthem next, hence the kite flying by O Fearghail. Funny to watch how the Gaa is disintegrating from within, many of us lifelong members who used it to better our communities & promote inclusion & that was inclusion for all, no matter your colour, creed, sexuality, gender, I never cared who or what you were, it was the Gaa family, now it's labelling the very same people as right wingers & racists & the ideals of the Gaa are been lost as it is now been used as a vehicle to drive certain political agendas.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 16/08/2017 12:00:20
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Replying To MesAmis: "Mes could you not say the same thing about the British flag? I don't see people trying to ban that flag though.
The talk of flags on here lately is gone nuts.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts:5632 - 16/08/2017 01:36:52 2033987
The last Union Flag l saw at a GAA match was burned on the Hill.
The Confederate flag exists to represent a people whose only reason for wanting their own country was so that they could continue to enslave other human beings for profit.
There's a little bit more to the Union flag than that imo but I don't think your point takes away from the general point about the Confederate Flag." https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/patrickroberts/the-irish-in-the-american-civil-war-150000-in-union-army-25000-in-confederate-119724549-238079561
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 16/08/2017 12:00:58
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Replying To yew_tree: "I don't think the Cork fans initially began flying this flag as any sort of political statement. It has red in it, and is known as the rebel flag so that is where it probably stems from. Visually it is a nice looking flag. To many it represents slavery and oppression.....can I offer a solution?
Why not fly the the Star-Spangled Banner instead?" Only if flown next to the North Korean flag*, equality of dictators etc!
MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/08/2017 12:02:41
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[url=]linkhttps://www.thoughtco.com/major-general-patrick-cleburne-2360309
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 16/08/2017 12:03:21
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Replying To galwayford: " Replying To MesAmis: "Mes could you not say the same thing about the British flag? I don't see people trying to ban that flag though.
The talk of flags on here lately is gone nuts.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts:5632 - 16/08/2017 01:36:52 2033987
The last Union Flag l saw at a GAA match was burned on the Hill.
The Confederate flag exists to represent a people whose only reason for wanting their own country was so that they could continue to enslave other human beings for profit.
There's a little bit more to the Union flag than that imo but I don't think your point takes away from the general point about the Confederate Flag." https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/patrickroberts/the-irish-in-the-american-civil-war-150000-in-union-army-25000-in-confederate-119724549-238079561"
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 16/08/2017 12:04:13
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ban everything.
Ban flags, anthems, cheering, shouting, cursing, music, belching, drinking, eating, waving, ad's, announcements, sponsorship. We can all sit quietly in a beige stadium and not express ourselves !!!!..... some people get offended by the slightest thing, a word, song, gesture, flag.. you won't please 100% of the people 100% of the time.
StirringIt (Cavan) - Posts: 374 - 16/08/2017 12:06:14
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Replying To the_walls: "No it is utter rubbish to suggest that the Confederate flag stands for sacrifice and free will. What sacrifice were they making? What free will were they fighting for? The free will to impose their will on a group and treat them and their descendants as personal property, taking away that groups free will. And so what if thousands of Irishmen fought under that flag and the vast majority were not slaveholders? Big deal? The vast majority of all soldiers in the Confederacy were not slaveholders as they would have been too poor to own slaves. It still doesn't take away that they were fighting for the right of white people to hold black people in perpetual bondage.
By all means though, please elaborate on the nuance you would like to bring to the debate." That was 30 - 40,000 Irishmen fighting on the wrong side then wasn't it and not for the last time as history as shown us. You say only some were slave owners? So some were slave owners then too obviously? Fine upstanding men they must of been.
benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 16/08/2017 12:07:59
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Replying To MesAmis: "I'm only answering your question Ollie.
If my answer was a bit curt it's because of the surprise at having to answer such a question." But why are you surprised?
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 16/08/2017 12:13:42
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