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Replying To clondalkindub: "Posters keep telling me to shut up but I'm not going to , how the f can Tyrone show up and play that defensive rubbish , what is the point of this? It's ruining our game that was worst than '11 , Tyrone supporters must be fuming that's two years in a row they've came up to Croker and embarrassed themselves. Wtf Mickey Harte was that? 14 players behind the ball the whole game , you's loss by 12 points and didn't even have a go at it that's the worst I've ever seen and it's going to set Tyrone back years. Down by 9 and still wouldn't come out and have a go. Ah I can't believe people find that rubbish fascinating or whatever it's bs." Mickey Harte has been a great servant to Tyrone but his Legacy has been destroyed after yesterdays shambolic display. There are no excuses for that and I don't mean to be disrespectful to tyrone folk but they cannot give another term to this management team.
I tuned in yesterday to watch Tyrone u17's win the all Ireland with a group of lads led brilliantly by Peter Canavan young lad play the game the right way with fantastic pace and skill. Are Tyrone county board going let these outstanding young players be stripped of their talents to play a bulls..t game of nothing, I really hope not! good luck to all the genuine Tyrone gaels but the next a couple of months is where yer future is won and lost.
mayomanic (Mayo) - Posts: 85 - 28/08/2017 12:38:31
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Awesome.
Absolutely, awesome.
That was wonderful to watch as a Dublin fan yesterday. An absolute pleasure to be there.
I made a point on the Dublin forum a few days ago saying how this is Jim Gavins last big test. He has beaten Mayo, He has beaten Kerry (both on more than one occasion), he has beaten and in return, got revenge on Donegal for his one big mistake as Dublin manager so far, and the only team and manager he had not come up against in the championship who were capable of putting us out was Tyrone and Micky harte, And Dublin absolutely obliterated them from minute one.
In the 3 weeks leading up the majority of people kept on talking about Dublin not being tested and how the intensity that Tyrone will bring will be like nothing we have experienced in some time. We were told about Tyrones wonderful transition. Both of which are good points, But by jaysus Tyrone will never experience a lesson like that again, It must have been absolute torture to play in as a Tyrone player and to watch as a fan. Dublin played a blinder tactically. Keepin lads out wide, patient build up, exploiting the gaps when they became available. Absolute animals in the tackle, Giving Tyrone NOTHING. nothing....
After 15 minutes these super fit Tyrone lads were absolutely goosed, At one point Colm Cav. was literally on his hands and knees looking at Niall Morgan as if to say, we're done, we haven't a hope. Dublin absoluitely bullied them. And completely dictated the game from the very first minute.
When will people appreciate this Dublin team for what they are ? Just outrageously good. That was a Tyrone team that people fancied to beat us or at least run us close. People mentioned the hunger myth which you all know ive serious issues with, It doesn't exist, Not with Dublin at least, Doesn't matter what we win, We are so damn good. Its not money or population figures that make us great, look at the work, the discipline, the attitude, the class, the mentality..... you cant buy that.
This Dublin team are on another level to everything else.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 28/08/2017 12:39:02
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Replying To IrishGael3: "This is the same Armagh team that Tyrone beat out of the park - are you crazy man? Tyrone were beat today because their tactics were totally wrong - they needed to high press Cluxton - instead they allowed him easy kick outs with numerous options. But they also seem to be very flat for some reason - every single player was off his game - did they have food poisoning or something. But in reality I think they met a much superior team - there's nothing in any of the above came from Gavin watching Armagh!" You are deluded if you think that the Dublin management didn't watch Armagh repeatedly try and punch holes down the middle and repeatedly got turned over to devastating effect by Tyrone. Don't get me wrong, i suspect the Dublin management had an idea of how to combat the blanket defense anyway but the Armagh game almost certainly crystallized exactly what his player should not try and do. Remember, Armagh beat Kildare and Kildare gave the Dubs a decent game - the Dublin management would have watched that match with considerable interest on how to combat Tyrone. The tactics from Dublin were superb and left Tyrone defensive system now in tatters.
The thing is now, Dublin has just shown the rest of Ireland who to deal with ultra defensive systems. The era of the blanket defense could now be close to an end (if any team has real aspirations of winning the all-ireland). I for one am glad that the system Tyrone deploy was destroyed. Jim McGuinness started this whole defensive crap to win an All-Ireland and be competitive for a number of years. Tyrone have taken over from him but i am glad Gaelic Football has evolved to the point were it has naturally consigned this crap & puke football to the bin. There was talk of changing the rules to stop this type of football becoming the norm - not allowing short kick outs, limiting hand-passing, zoned football were at least 4 forwards had to stay up the field etc. (we have already got the bloody Mark and 90% odf kickouts are short still!). I am delighted that the rule makers of our game did not have to take further action to try and stop the blanket defense. Dublin has just done that for us all.
Now, when any manager takes over his county and tells his players we are going to adopt the blanket defense system, the players should throw their kit bag over their shoulder and go home because the most that is going to win you in a provincial title (in Ulster only mind you!).
DooReg (Armagh) - Posts: 33 - 28/08/2017 12:48:05
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Replying To rahillyman: "The reality is the one dimensional management have stifled all the creativity out of the players with a robotic system where players need to fit into a system of play and therefore the best players in Tyrone are not on the field of play. Yesterday was an embarrassment our management have learnt nothing over the past 4 or 5 years and should do the right thing in the interests of Tyrone football. We have talent in Tyrone god forbid that this management team could still be in place when our Under 17's are ready to come on board. Our county has to be bigger than individuals. Nobody is questioning what has been achieved in the past but now is the time to do the right thing in the interests of Tyrone football" I have no knowledge of club football in Tyrone, so I am not sure if the best players are on the panel. However, if you are saying Tyrone have 5 or 6 forwards good enough to win you an All Ireland not being picked, then that is a problem. I doubt very much a manager as successful as MH would not find a system to allow these type of players to be on the panel. Maybe Tyrone need to accept, there is limited talent in the county at senior level, and a great manager is trying to ensure Tyrone play in Division 1 and have a prolonged summer. You should know what it takes to win All Irelands, look at the fantastic forward line you had in the 00's. If a county does not have that type of player, you need to accept you cannot win an All Ireland. It doesnt mean you cannot have some level of success. I believe a more expansive system would expose Tyrone's weaknesses, and they would not even enjoy the small bit of success they currently have. I suspect the management know that.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 28/08/2017 12:48:39
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Replying To Soma: "Did the fact Tyrone had no real test this summer before yesterday's game cost them? Obviously Dublin didn't have a very tight game either but they are a much more settled and experienced team. Tyrone didn't seem able to cope with the pace of a proper championship game at all, highlighted best by McNamees attempt to stop O'Callaghan for the goal. McNamee is an excellent defender but was made look silly, just seemed way off the pace." How do you prepare yourself for that Dublin annihilation.
This had nothing to do with Tyrone.
And its a huge disservice to this OUTSTANDING, outrageously good, well prepared and diligent this Dublin team are and they will never get the respect they deserve by people on here (not saying you Soma) because people will continue to bring up finance etc.
Finance doesn't give you the hunger, the attitude, the discipline, the workrate, the tactical nous of Jim and his management team etc
The fact is, yesterday Dublin just outclassed a very good Tyrone team, We were well prepared, knew exactly what to expect. We ran every tyrone player into the ground. It was so effective, it was beautiful to watch as a Dublin fan yesterday... The patience in our build up, decision making, Our own defensive performance.
It was flawless. Honestly.... It was flawless. The most complete game of football ive seen Dublin play in their last 41 competitive games in league and championship, of which, they lost 1, by a point.
People will hate, people will begrudge, people will try talk it down, but you are in the presence of greatness whether we go on to win it or not. A special, special group of players.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 28/08/2017 12:49:20
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Was impressive from Dublin yesterday. Two nice goals but could've had more. Some competition for places when players like BB and MDMA don't even get a run out from the bench (Kevin Mc was the unlucky one last time not to get on).
Agree that Tyrone's system was exposed in all it's flaws. You don't have to be a tactical genius to realise that getting all your players behind the ball when trailing by 7 is futile. Kildare to me showed the right way to play Dublin. Albeit they don't the defence to cope with Dublin just yet. Hopefully future teams will look at yesterday and think up new ways to compete with the top teams outside of everyone camping in their own half.
poguemahone (Dublin) - Posts: 365 - 28/08/2017 12:56:07
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Replying To waynoI: "How do you prepare yourself for that Dublin annihilation.
This had nothing to do with Tyrone.
And its a huge disservice to this OUTSTANDING, outrageously good, well prepared and diligent this Dublin team are and they will never get the respect they deserve by people on here (not saying you Soma) because people will continue to bring up finance etc.
Finance doesn't give you the hunger, the attitude, the discipline, the workrate, the tactical nous of Jim and his management team etc
The fact is, yesterday Dublin just outclassed a very good Tyrone team, We were well prepared, knew exactly what to expect. We ran every tyrone player into the ground. It was so effective, it was beautiful to watch as a Dublin fan yesterday... The patience in our build up, decision making, Our own defensive performance.
It was flawless. Honestly.... It was flawless. The most complete game of football ive seen Dublin play in their last 41 competitive games in league and championship, of which, they lost 1, by a point.
People will hate, people will begrudge, people will try talk it down, but you are in the presence of greatness whether we go on to win it or not. A special, special group of players." Yes, agreed. Also, all this silly talk about 'systems' and 'beating the blanket defence'; that's all dribble as well. Dublin can defend better than anyone and Dublin won because they have exceptional players who are superbly prepared and managed. If ye win it this year, knocking on the door of all-time greatest team. Huge ask for Mayo.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 28/08/2017 13:07:29
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Replying To waynoI: "How do you prepare yourself for that Dublin annihilation.
This had nothing to do with Tyrone.
And its a huge disservice to this OUTSTANDING, outrageously good, well prepared and diligent this Dublin team are and they will never get the respect they deserve by people on here (not saying you Soma) because people will continue to bring up finance etc.
Finance doesn't give you the hunger, the attitude, the discipline, the workrate, the tactical nous of Jim and his management team etc
The fact is, yesterday Dublin just outclassed a very good Tyrone team, We were well prepared, knew exactly what to expect. We ran every tyrone player into the ground. It was so effective, it was beautiful to watch as a Dublin fan yesterday... The patience in our build up, decision making, Our own defensive performance.
It was flawless. Honestly.... It was flawless. The most complete game of football ive seen Dublin play in their last 41 competitive games in league and championship, of which, they lost 1, by a point.
People will hate, people will begrudge, people will try talk it down, but you are in the presence of greatness whether we go on to win it or not. A special, special group of players." Calm down man, yes Dublin were excellent yesterday but surely you have to admit that Tyrone just didn't show up, they are a much better team than what they showed yesterday. What impressed me most about the Dubs was their tackling, they wactually were superior to Tyrone is this aspect of the game, who would have thought that. Look its going to be a completely different game against Mayo and when a game is close everything becomes more difficult and you never know what might happen. If the Dublin are such an amazing team they should beat Mayo out the gate but I suspect it will be close.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1874 - 28/08/2017 13:40:16
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well done to Dublin give Tyrone and everyone else a schooling yesterday a truly great team,
just when you think you are marking head way and get bring the game back to 6 points they bring on 3 allstars forwards and still have at least 4 or 5 forwards that would start for most other teams every day of the week sitting on the bench. hope they go on now and make more history with a 3 in a row
redbomb (Tyrone) - Posts: 167 - 28/08/2017 14:07:22
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Well now another all Ireland final and when you get there its always a good day in the office.
Yesterday was an odd game, in the sense that every Dublin fan while confident was tense before the game expecting a really tight game, in actual fact the game turned out to be the ending of an era i think in the way the philosophy of football is played in the country. The defensive system and blanket defense as a whole team philosophy i think now is dead, its had its day, its had its success but i believe the trap is now sprung. Maybe yesterday was a marker that other counties need to go back to the drawing board in terms of their approach to football.
Tyrone as we know have some truly wonderful players, it was sad and i felt unfair that the talent wasn't let of the leash to an extent especially when Dublin got their noses in front. The lack of a plan b in a way was embarrassing and i felt for the Tyrone players chasing shadows for the whole game. I think some serious questions need to be asked of Harte and ability to make decisions to impact the game when the game got away from them. It was a sad spectacle for a semi final and ireally did feel for the Tyrone players and fans they deserved more and were let down by the management team.
For me the turning point of the game was the goal, it was Dublins game play to get their noses in front in the firt quarter and nullify the Tyrone blanket, the early goal was calculated and the game plan executed brilliantly, Tyrone were just picked of with no real sense of response. Again i think the management team of Tyrone were remiss.
As for Dublin a truly clinical and ruthless display, the game surprisingly came with little test or cost and a place in the final was easily won. I couldn't pick one player above any other i thought every player on the pitch was at least a 9 out of 10. Kilkenny for me though is the standout performer, why teams dont target him is beyond me if you nullify him you go a long way to stopping Dublin. Saying it and doing it are two different things though, he is just everywhere. Jack, Fenton, Con, Cian, Cooper, McCarthy Fitzy were all immense. Big shout out to John Small who did a massive spoiling role on Peter Harte. What else can you say it is trully a wonderful team. While it was also an exhibition in defending yesterday. The balance in the team between attack and defense and the transition is amazing.
Very confident going into the final, it hard not to be with this team. What doesn't get talked about much is the transition in the team this year. IOts almost a different team to the one that won the all ireland last year and if we win an all ireland with this new team it will go down as one of our greatest feats. The final itself i hope will be brilliant game. I dont think either team will hold any surprise for the other as they no each other so well. Be fascinating to see how both teams set up.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 28/08/2017 14:14:20
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Replying To Green_Gold: "Calm down man, yes Dublin were excellent yesterday but surely you have to admit that Tyrone just didn't show up, they are a much better team than what they showed yesterday. What impressed me most about the Dubs was their tackling, they wactually were superior to Tyrone is this aspect of the game, who would have thought that. Look its going to be a completely different game against Mayo and when a game is close everything becomes more difficult and you never know what might happen. If the Dublin are such an amazing team they should beat Mayo out the gate but I suspect it will be close." Was anyone really surprised that Dublin's tackling was a factor yesterday? A trademarks of this team is to tackle hard and turn over the ball as much as a possible. You are being a bit glib about Dublin being a great team but they obviously are regardless of whether they beat Mayo or not. After all any team can beat another on the day and Mayo have been close Dublin in recent years. Not long ago many were saying Dublin would struggle with the blanket defence. A sign of how good team they are in that they adapted and can now overcome even the best of defensive teams.
poguemahone (Dublin) - Posts: 365 - 28/08/2017 14:32:51
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Replying To poguemahone: "Was anyone really surprised that Dublin's tackling was a factor yesterday? A trademarks of this team is to tackle hard and turn over the ball as much as a possible. You are being a bit glib about Dublin being a great team but they obviously are regardless of whether they beat Mayo or not. After all any team can beat another on the day and Mayo have been close Dublin in recent years. Not long ago many were saying Dublin would struggle with the blanket defence. A sign of how good team they are in that they adapted and can now overcome even the best of defensive teams." Sorry didn't mean to sound glib about how brilliant Dublin are, that is undisputed. However waynol would have us believe there is no point in Mayo turning up, a bit of humility doesn't go amiss. Mayo have been a great match for Dublin in recent years and I expect in to be the same this year. Both teams have improved this year and it will hopefully be a great final.
I know Dublin have some great defenders but I was genuinely surprised that they won more turnovers than Tyrone. They have improved dramtically in recent years in this aspect of the game, great credit to the managment team and players for this.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1874 - 28/08/2017 14:51:51
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Replying To clondalkindub: "Posters keep telling me to shut up but I'm not going to , how the f can Tyrone show up and play that defensive rubbish , what is the point of this? It's ruining our game that was worst than '11 , Tyrone supporters must be fuming that's two years in a row they've came up to Croker and embarrassed themselves. Wtf Mickey Harte was that? 14 players behind the ball the whole game , you's loss by 12 points and didn't even have a go at it that's the worst I've ever seen and it's going to set Tyrone back years. Down by 9 and still wouldn't come out and have a go. Ah I can't believe people find that rubbish fascinating or whatever it's bs." they couldn't come forward as the didn't know what to do at that stage and no direction from the glum faces on the side line. these players have bought into mickeys schemes and left themselves bankrupt of any idea what to do when the plan goes arse up like yesterday. these players as skilled as they are probably wouldn't have beat the dubs on the display they gave yesterday { and I believed they could and put my money on it with the bookies } but to stand back looking clueless made them look ridiculous and the whole setup deserves all the criticism they receive. has mh got that much hold over players minds that they couldn't even think to themselves jeez we need to do something here and bloody quick, as he's now out of contract it will be interesting to see the direction tyrone go now over the next couple of months. as for the argument that tyrone weren't really tested doesn't stand up either and is only people being sentimental in their support of mh, but again Dublin never really got tested bar Kildare but yesterday they came out and just ran at tyrone and with 14 players behind the ball meant you had 14 players in your own scoring zone and even 9 down still persisted with it. feel sorry for anyone who paid good money to travel from abroad to watch that, at least they could say they saw a great dub team in action
bulmccabe (Tyrone) - Posts: 361 - 28/08/2017 15:03:34
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After yesterday's game all I can think of is a comment made by Mickey Harte after Dublin beat Mayo in the 2016 All Ireland Final with the assumption that Tyrone would have beaten Dublin, well yesterday they had their chance and done nothing, worse performance by a Tyrone team in a long time, bad enough losing a game but the game was over after 15 minutes and still no change in the game plan when it wasn't working
riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 28/08/2017 15:09:51
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Replying To Green_Gold: "Sorry didn't mean to sound glib about how brilliant Dublin are, that is undisputed. However waynol would have us believe there is no point in Mayo turning up, a bit of humility doesn't go amiss. Mayo have been a great match for Dublin in recent years and I expect in to be the same this year. Both teams have improved this year and it will hopefully be a great final.
I know Dublin have some great defenders but I was genuinely surprised that they won more turnovers than Tyrone. They have improved dramtically in recent years in this aspect of the game, great credit to the managment team and players for this." Ah there's plenty of humility amongst the Dubs but at the same time some posters are getting slated for not being honest (in assessing Dublin's chances). So in fairness some lads are genuinelly calling it as they see it.
I would agree with ye that there is a chance of getting carried away. Personally am not into talking about how great of a team Dublin are at this point. Save all that stuff for when the 2017 championship is done and dusted. Plus opinions change by the day. On Satruday folk were talking about how good Mayo were and how it would take a very good team to beat them. By Sunday they were talking about how hard it will be for Mayo to stop Dublin :) . Add to that, this Tyrone team were considered a fine team progressing along and destined to become AI champions sooner than later. Now its all call for change and new visions etc.
poguemahone (Dublin) - Posts: 365 - 28/08/2017 16:23:42
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Replying To riverboys: "After yesterday's game all I can think of is a comment made by Mickey Harte after Dublin beat Mayo in the 2016 All Ireland Final with the assumption that Tyrone would have beaten Dublin, well yesterday they had their chance and done nothing, worse performance by a Tyrone team in a long time, bad enough losing a game but the game was over after 15 minutes and still no change in the game plan when it wasn't working" Game over after 15 mins and Tyrone had Armagh bate after 15 mins. Not looking good for the rest of us eh!
DooReg (Armagh) - Posts: 33 - 28/08/2017 16:30:19
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Replying To waynoI: "How do you prepare yourself for that Dublin annihilation.
This had nothing to do with Tyrone.
And its a huge disservice to this OUTSTANDING, outrageously good, well prepared and diligent this Dublin team are and they will never get the respect they deserve by people on here (not saying you Soma) because people will continue to bring up finance etc.
Finance doesn't give you the hunger, the attitude, the discipline, the workrate, the tactical nous of Jim and his management team etc
The fact is, yesterday Dublin just outclassed a very good Tyrone team, We were well prepared, knew exactly what to expect. We ran every tyrone player into the ground. It was so effective, it was beautiful to watch as a Dublin fan yesterday... The patience in our build up, decision making, Our own defensive performance.
It was flawless. Honestly.... It was flawless. The most complete game of football ive seen Dublin play in their last 41 competitive games in league and championship, of which, they lost 1, by a point.
People will hate, people will begrudge, people will try talk it down, but you are in the presence of greatness whether we go on to win it or not. A special, special group of players." Hmmm. What I saw was a Tyrone team who held a rigid game plan that was clearly not correct. That was evident from the early stages. They actually were guilty of making the same mistakes as Monaghan before them. The tactic was never going to work and Tyrone were really disappointing as most people, me included, expected them to bring serious intensity and ferocious tackling. I expected they would have lost but not by that much. I actually thought they would have stayed close only to have the bench emptied and Dublin to push on and win by 5-6 points.
seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 28/08/2017 16:52:35
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Replying To waynoI: "Awesome.
Absolutely, awesome.
That was wonderful to watch as a Dublin fan yesterday. An absolute pleasure to be there.
I made a point on the Dublin forum a few days ago saying how this is Jim Gavins last big test. He has beaten Mayo, He has beaten Kerry (both on more than one occasion), he has beaten and in return, got revenge on Donegal for his one big mistake as Dublin manager so far, and the only team and manager he had not come up against in the championship who were capable of putting us out was Tyrone and Micky harte, And Dublin absolutely obliterated them from minute one.
In the 3 weeks leading up the majority of people kept on talking about Dublin not being tested and how the intensity that Tyrone will bring will be like nothing we have experienced in some time. We were told about Tyrones wonderful transition. Both of which are good points, But by jaysus Tyrone will never experience a lesson like that again, It must have been absolute torture to play in as a Tyrone player and to watch as a fan. Dublin played a blinder tactically. Keepin lads out wide, patient build up, exploiting the gaps when they became available. Absolute animals in the tackle, Giving Tyrone NOTHING. nothing....
After 15 minutes these super fit Tyrone lads were absolutely goosed, At one point Colm Cav. was literally on his hands and knees looking at Niall Morgan as if to say, we're done, we haven't a hope. Dublin absoluitely bullied them. And completely dictated the game from the very first minute.
When will people appreciate this Dublin team for what they are ? Just outrageously good. That was a Tyrone team that people fancied to beat us or at least run us close. People mentioned the hunger myth which you all know ive serious issues with, It doesn't exist, Not with Dublin at least, Doesn't matter what we win, We are so damn good. Its not money or population figures that make us great, look at the work, the discipline, the attitude, the class, the mentality..... you cant buy that.
This Dublin team are on another level to everything else." weve proven to always have a bit extra against mayo and kerry but it hasnt been another level i dont think....we havent beaten them anywhere near as comfortably as yesterday
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 28/08/2017 18:04:07
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I think people are being overly harsh on the Tyrone players. While the tactics were wrong, those Tyrone players were trying their best. They trained for the last 10 months solely with that game in mind but physically they were blown away. Dublin are so athletic powerful and fast that they make you look slow and lazy in comparison. Listen to Sean Cavanagh's interview on Off The Ball. He says himself that the most exceptional thing about Dublin is their pace and power. It's like having 15 guys on your team with the athletic pace and power of a Sean Cavanagh in his prime on your team. Opposition teams like Monaghan, Kildare and Tyrone were trying their level best. They just can't cope with that pace on the Croke Park pitch. Then supporters criticise them for not trying and for rolling over but that's just not the case. For those players after 20 mins against Dublin yesterday they probably felt like their lungs were about to burst from chasing shadows.
HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 28/08/2017 18:30:04
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There was no interview on rte yesterday with Mickey Harte.Is Mickey still boycotting Rte.If so, that's going on for a long tine.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2162 - 28/08/2017 19:04:02
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