coylers elbow

yeah I think that's a bit unfair on Ward ,the opposition just surround him and wait for the break,our midfield is poor,but varied kick-outs would help..

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 04/03/2012 20:20:45    1122557

Ward made a good effort at midfield. He contested every kickout. The problem last night was that we didn't enough of the breaking ball. Apart from the kickouts he doesn't do enough to impact the game. I'd love to see Walsh and Menton at midfield next week.

seamusmac (Meath) - Posts: 379 - 04/03/2012 21:19:42    1122634

Totally agree with Ollie99.. marking space at this level is a waste of time and only playing into the hands of top teams, we have to get back to playing a Meath style, maybe the players are not good enough but we canT expect to win with 2 wing forwards in the backs along with Bray dropping deep.
Kildare scored 18 points with Meath have nearly 12/13 men behind the ball!!

Current modern game consists of every player being totally comfortable on the ball, so why would we leave a situation where Kildare defenders are unmarked and can drift up the field and then take the ball at speed at our 45 resulting in a free or shot.

We should mark our men and play in the position selected. Why can the 2 midfielders drop back if required??
Also agree with poster about GG, crazy bring him on ahead of any sub in my opinion. GG is doing himself or the team no favours.

Galway will be extremely fired up for the Meath visit and expect this game to be extremely difficult as the Klidare defeat will take a few weeks to recover from and you cant expect the team to play aswell.

Northmeathman (Meath) - Posts: 284 - 05/03/2012 10:05:36    1122745

Northmeathman

Yeah I agree,what makes that worse is that we know Kildare get their backs coming forward at speed,yet we continue to have the same defensive strategy.Sure Kildare didn't really need a full forward line!

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 05/03/2012 12:25:19    1122892

Marking space is a waste of time as space does not move!!. The space will not beat you, its the guy who has control of the ball that requires watching!. You need to be able to man-mark, a feat that most of our backs are incapable of without fouling and then blaming the ref. We do not appear to have too many forwards who can mark the back to stop him from a free run up the field- its called workrate. Forwards are only dangerous when in a scoring position and there are too many forwards who think playing well is dependent on the number of touches they make with the ball handpassing to and fro. Bringing back older players is a waste of time and does not work. Young Gilsean performed well and its only a short time since the experts where saying that he was not good enough!. There are some folk posting to this Board who think that before you play for the county you have to undergo a course in bodybuilding (or is it conditioning!)

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 05/03/2012 13:44:30    1122972

Just to be clear, I have no problem with zonal defending. Donegal and Dublin do it well, Meath (and I would suggest Kildare too), do it poorly. Probably why Saturdays's game was so high scoring.

Like it or not it's the future. Most intercounty teams play with three or four dedicated man-markers and then up to six backs who have areas of the pitch that they are responsible for. Donegal for example will typically have three full-backs around the D and a bank of four across the forty, with another line in front. It works for them because they know when to step up and apply pressure. We don't. Watch Banty's Meath and the block always comes in too late despite the numbers of backs around the forward.

It took Pat Gilroy two years to get Dublin to adapt to his system but I don't have much faith in Banty as a defense minded coach. He's improved us as an attacking team, forwards are much less selfish, we can run the ball now. I'll say it again, watching Armagh play direct, open football I wish we had O'Rourke and Grimley instead of Grimty in 2011. If McDonnell commits for another year they could well be in an All-Ireland final come September.

Ollie99 (Meath) - Posts: 442 - 05/03/2012 15:14:23    1123076

browncows

Who said Gilsenan wasn't good enough?? I said 3 years ago he was the one to watch.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 05/03/2012 16:56:27    1123168

Banty's teams aren't great defensively. Lots of men behind the ball, one dedicated sweeper but it's just numbers for the sake of it. The pressure on the man in posession doesn't come quickly enough, everyone's marking space, not sure when when to step up and close down. Defensively we're a poor impression of Dublin or Donegal.

This is an important point. Meath have the right idea in terms of tactics but lacking the savvy to implement the. 12 men in our '45 but Kildare found it very easy to break our barrier. I think we're right to get as many players back but we need to be quicker at closing down the player in possession. Once kept outside the '45, any team will find it difficult to score. I'm not sure it's Banty's fault either Ollie. The plan is obvious. Can the players execute is my question? We'll probably improve with time but ultimately may never be good enough to do what Dublin do.

Loyal2TheRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 4522 - 05/03/2012 17:48:25    1123220

Thought the forwards did well considering the lack of ball coming into them. Some players did not look as fit or as fast as their Kildare counterparts. Midfield area is a problem. If we are going to continuously break or punch the ball from the kick outs we need scavengers who will win the dirty ball. Team is improving in my opinion but some key positions still up for grabs.

Poormouth (Meath) - Posts: 204 - 05/03/2012 18:38:50    1123266

Was a great game to watch in Navan. Id say Kildare were the better team but it was even enough with the goals Meath scored and we were pushed right to the end by yous. I think if Meath can shore up the defence and maybe sort out the midfield particularly around the breaking ball they will be tough to beat. Few very good forwards in the ranks too so they could be ones to watch this year.

RadleyParkLily (Kildare) - Posts: 36 - 06/03/2012 10:01:49    1123500

RadleyParkLily
Hit the nail on the head. Fair comments

rath_togh (Meath) - Posts: 740 - 06/03/2012 10:28:34    1123519

ziggy - I'm referring to the 'experts' who have been posting to this board over the last 12 months!! as I had never any doubt about his footballing ability. The issues of 'good' forwards- its the half forwards job to pick up the breaking ball in midfield something we are not good enough at (assisted by the halfbacks).

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 06/03/2012 14:07:57    1123718

Kerry don't get the kind of numbers behind the 45 that Donegal or Dublin do but they're still solid defensively, mainly because the backs don't shirk responsibility. Watching Meath play with sweepers along the forty and our full-backs always play their man from behind, meaning we're second to every ball.

I would have at least three forwards up front. The full-backs need to play in front of their man and attack the ball coming in more often. There aren't too many coaches who know how to implement zonal defenses effectively. Donegal do it best, next Dublin and Mayo. Kerry and Cork are starting to adapt. Banty doesn't know how to do it. Players look lost in this system but it is the future to be fair. We'd need a dedicated defensive coach but Banty's hardly going to bring one in at this stage.

Ollie99 (Meath) - Posts: 442 - 06/03/2012 17:08:08    1123932

I agree 100% with the posters earlier who said the problem is not with a zonal defence, or a blanket defence or whatever other name you want to call it. The problem is that we play it very badly. It is not enough to get men behind the ball in defence - its what they do when they get there that counts. Above all they have to work and work and work to close forwards down, block off the options for the man in possession, and stop the free men running from the half back line and midfield. We are just not doing that and unfortunately we seem intent on playing players who don't appear able to do it. Last Saturday, I was sitting in the stand between the 21 and 45 metre lines. On a few occasions when Kildare had the ball, I specifically watched the movements of some of our players, especially the 2 midfielders. Both of them tended to drop back onto the 40 or even further back - as expected with midfielders in the system. But neither of them did any proper defending when they got there. Brian Meade just ran in the general direction of the ball. Mark ward ambled around the 40 but never once picked up a player sprinting through the centre. The end result was that time + time again we got cut open right through the centre of the defence. And while I like Graham Reilly as a forward, I am not sure that he is fit enough to play as a CHF - I am not convinced he has the legs to track back against an attacking CHB and then turn around and get back to his CHF position.
As I said in another thread, I think we need to forget the idea of 2 big high-fielding midfielders - that idea belongs back in the 80's. We need fast mobile midfielders with the engine to run up and down the pitch all day long. Something similar is needed in your CHF and CHB. And we need to seriously up the work rate in defence before the opposition are in on the full back line- its too late by then.

anfearbeag (Meath) - Posts: 1134 - 06/03/2012 18:21:44    1124037

anfearbeag

I agree but only one of our midfielders is capable of fielding the ball anyway!

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 07/03/2012 11:08:05    1124380

Where's Shane O'Rourke for midfield ? The lad had a decent game last year in Breffni, albeit against Louth.

RoyalSt.Pat (Meath) - Posts: 333 - 07/03/2012 12:20:35    1124427

anfearbeag - totally agree with that analysis r.e. our backs. Yes there's a lack of workrate there but it's down to attitude and coaching rather than a lack of fitness. Or maybe we'll see the fruits of Cahill's fitness training come championship?

Don't agree about high fielding being redundant. You're forgetting that Dublin won the All-Ireland with two traditional big men at midfield, with Paul Flynn winning his share of clean catches. Kerry also bring Donaghy out to midfield for kickouts. Aidan Walsh and Alan O'Connor have been instrumental in Cork's successes. I would suggest that the above teams are a lot more clinical with their kickouts, hitting the wings more often and giving their midfielders space to attack the ball. Kildare focus on breaking ball out of necessity I would suggest, if Early was fit he would be starting alongside Flynn in the middle.

Ollie99 (Meath) - Posts: 442 - 07/03/2012 14:03:28    1124540

I thought mickey burke had an outstanding game on sat from start to finish. he took great pride in the meath jersey and looked hungry! can we try boost the lads instead of constantly knockin them, focus on the positive instead of the negative and it will get us alot further!

invisible96 (Meath) - Posts: 20 - 07/03/2012 14:15:01    1124548