Cavan Forum

Cavan In The Qualifiers/ Super 8S

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "Year after year you continuously miss the point. The supporters are justifiably fuming after that performance against Tyrone. They're completely entitled to be annoyed at the attitude shown that day.

However there is an underlying frustration that compounds the problem for Cavan supporters, and that is the outright failure of the team, not just this year, or last year, or the last decade, but for the last half a century. Half a damn century. Constant underachievement. Decades of it.

You just don't understand. None of us expect to win the AI. None of us expect to win Ulster every year. But all things considered, we should be winning at least one provincial title every ten years. That's really not too much to ask."
Agree 100% with that post. We had one of the best Cavan sides ever in 1976 and got beaten after a replay against Derry. Proper footballers who weren't afraid to mix it or even take a score . Yet they couldn't get over the line. Beaten again in 78, 83 etc.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 970 - 18/07/2019 10:19:52    2212666

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "Agree 100% with that post. We had one of the best Cavan sides ever in 1976 and got beaten after a replay against Derry. Proper footballers who weren't afraid to mix it or even take a score . Yet they couldn't get over the line. Beaten again in 78, 83 etc."
One of the best Cavan sides ever. Better than in the 60's where we shared all Ulsters with Down and somehow missed out on an All Ireland. Better than in the 30's 40's and 50's when we actually won all irelands.

This is typical rubbish you get from people of a certain age in Cavan, the 70s were the beginning of the end for our county as one of the top counties in Ireland.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1230 - 18/07/2019 13:17:42    2212745

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Replying To fredflint:  "One of the best Cavan sides ever. Better than in the 60's where we shared all Ulsters with Down and somehow missed out on an All Ireland. Better than in the 30's 40's and 50's when we actually won all irelands.

This is typical rubbish you get from people of a certain age in Cavan, the 70s were the beginning of the end for our county as one of the top counties in Ireland."
One of the best sides we had that should have won an Ulster that didn't. Never saw the 60s teams but remember the 70s teams . Players stepped up quickly from the 1973 st pats team and the 1974 minor team. Not like the guys today ... they didn't need 10 years to mature in county footballers.
And what's more.. players like Enda McGowan, pat mc Gill , dermot Dalton , okeefe, leddys, frankie Dolan ect ect ect played with heart , guts and didn't throw in the towe after 10 minutes. And they could play a bit as well.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 970 - 18/07/2019 15:25:27    2212795

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "One of the best sides we had that should have won an Ulster that didn't. Never saw the 60s teams but remember the 70s teams . Players stepped up quickly from the 1973 st pats team and the 1974 minor team. Not like the guys today ... they didn't need 10 years to mature in county footballers.
And what's more.. players like Enda McGowan, pat mc Gill , dermot Dalton , okeefe, leddys, frankie Dolan ect ect ect played with heart , guts and didn't throw in the towe after 10 minutes. And they could play a bit as well."
Strange how in years past you always blamed the management for our defeats to the top teams but now you lay the fault squarely on the shoulders of the players , many who have being playing for the last number of years. Do you now exonerate previous managements, or is it that, previously we had the players but not the management and now have the management but not the players? You've also in the past declared that as we had won Ulster u21's and a minor it should follow on that we should be winning senior titles, yet, you say a lad , at 25 years of age ,who has won an ulster minor, 3 U21's, has represented Ulster in the inter provincial series and has also his country in International rules, should never play for Cavan again!!!!

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 219 - 18/07/2019 17:17:01    2212840

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "One of the best sides we had that should have won an Ulster that didn't. Never saw the 60s teams but remember the 70s teams . Players stepped up quickly from the 1973 st pats team and the 1974 minor team. Not like the guys today ... they didn't need 10 years to mature in county footballers.
And what's more.. players like Enda McGowan, pat mc Gill , dermot Dalton , okeefe, leddys, frankie Dolan ect ect ect played with heart , guts and didn't throw in the towe after 10 minutes. And they could play a bit as well."
The 1972 St Pats lads and the 74 minors were integrating into a team which already had the likes of McGowan, McCabe, Duggan ,Kelly etc the remnants of the 1969 Ulster winning team , a team which at the time were very disappointed not to make the All Ireland Final. What did U21's have to integrate into? a team who had known defeats to Waterford, Wicklow, Antrim etc and were just about holding their own in Division 3 , there's a vast difference. We didn't win any Ulster Titles in the 70' or 80's either.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 219 - 18/07/2019 18:16:33    2212860

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Was the quiet man at any of the semi finals last night? I think we know the answer NO

theham (Cavan) - Posts: 83 - 18/07/2019 20:26:14    2212911

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Replying To aceofspades:  "Strange how in years past you always blamed the management for our defeats to the top teams but now you lay the fault squarely on the shoulders of the players , many who have being playing for the last number of years. Do you now exonerate previous managements, or is it that, previously we had the players but not the management and now have the management but not the players? You've also in the past declared that as we had won Ulster u21's and a minor it should follow on that we should be winning senior titles, yet, you say a lad , at 25 years of age ,who has won an ulster minor, 3 U21's, has represented Ulster in the inter provincial series and has also his country in International rules, should never play for Cavan again!!!!"
I blame the present management for our poor showing and team selection against Donegaland Tyrone. If you read my posts you will see where I've said I believe Mickey got the team selection wrong.
I don't agree with selecting backs in forward positions playing them as backs then replacing them with forwards who also played as makeshift backs while we were 10 points down .
Mickey Harte , Declan Bonner don't give one hoot how we line up. They can spot a problem quickly and take steps to rectify it .
No Cavan manager since MCHugh could do that.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 970 - 19/07/2019 11:32:21    2213100

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Replying To aceofspades:  "The 1972 St Pats lads and the 74 minors were integrating into a team which already had the likes of McGowan, McCabe, Duggan ,Kelly etc the remnants of the 1969 Ulster winning team , a team which at the time were very disappointed not to make the All Ireland Final. What did U21's have to integrate into? a team who had known defeats to Waterford, Wicklow, Antrim etc and were just about holding their own in Division 3 , there's a vast difference. We didn't win any Ulster Titles in the 70' or 80's either."
Seem's like we're living in the past here and the theory that Pats lads are Gods. There's an old saying " The older a man gets, the faster he was able to run as a boy"

Back in the 70's the football was slow and physical. None of those players would survive in the modern game.
TG4 showed the All Ireland Final from 1974 recently. It was brutal to watch. Balls been hoofed into a forward line, frees of the ground slowing up the game.
You can't compare the game of over 40 years ago to now.

StirringIt (Cavan) - Posts: 369 - 19/07/2019 12:03:23    2213117

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Replying To StirringIt:  "Seem's like we're living in the past here and the theory that Pats lads are Gods. There's an old saying " The older a man gets, the faster he was able to run as a boy"

Back in the 70's the football was slow and physical. None of those players would survive in the modern game.
TG4 showed the All Ireland Final from 1974 recently. It was brutal to watch. Balls been hoofed into a forward line, frees of the ground slowing up the game.
You can't compare the game of over 40 years ago to now."
Sit down some day you have nothing to do and watch down v Derry in 94 and Meath v down in 91 on YouTube. You will see it all there. Speed , skill , tough knows and great scores . And come back and tell me today's football is better .

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 970 - 19/07/2019 16:44:01    2213230

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Replying To aceofspades:  "Strange how in years past you always blamed the management for our defeats to the top teams but now you lay the fault squarely on the shoulders of the players , many who have being playing for the last number of years. Do you now exonerate previous managements, or is it that, previously we had the players but not the management and now have the management but not the players? You've also in the past declared that as we had won Ulster u21's and a minor it should follow on that we should be winning senior titles, yet, you say a lad , at 25 years of age ,who has won an ulster minor, 3 U21's, has represented Ulster in the inter provincial series and has also his country in International rules, should never play for Cavan again!!!!"
I certainly wouldn't play him on his performances or more importantly his attitude against Donegal and Tyrone .
He spent the whole Tyrone game trying to get sent off.
Where would you play him anyway? Because he hasn't shone anywhere he's been . Especially for a lad who's won as much as you say he's won.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 970 - 19/07/2019 17:19:55    2213239

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Tyrone have been made to look very, very ordinary since they beat us. Both Roscommon and Cork have been able to expose them, albeit coming up just short. It's clear Tyrone are not AI contenders, in fact, they're not a top 3 team at all.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 343 - 20/07/2019 19:12:54    2213621

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "Tyrone have been made to look very, very ordinary since they beat us. Both Roscommon and Cork have been able to expose them, albeit coming up just short. It's clear Tyrone are not AI contenders, in fact, they're not a top 3 team at all."
Why is that a surprise?

MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 427 - 20/07/2019 19:39:35    2213634

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Replying To MadgeKing:  "Why is that a surprise?"
So the best 8 teams are in two groups and Tyrone are certain to be in semi now, ie in the last 4. So if they are not top 3 they must be top 4. Cork had a good go at them today and fair play to them, pity cavan players didn't man up and do the same.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1230 - 20/07/2019 19:56:43    2213642

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On a broader point, I think one of the key problems in cavan football is a distinct lack of ambition. There is clearly a cohort of players in the current squad that are quite happy to coast along and enjoy the trappings and status associated with being county footballers and view making the cavan team as the pinnacle rather than actually being dead-set on achieving something meaningful in blue. In addition, a number of these guys convey the impression that they are doing their clubs a favour when they play for them. Look at those who bailed on their clubs recently, some of those clubs being in relegation dogfights. Big calls need to be made by Graham if he's to properly assert his authority and root out the bad apples in the group because with those guys front and centre we're going nowhere.

GallantJohnJoe (Cavan) - Posts: 288 - 21/07/2019 09:24:59    2213848

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Replying To GallantJohnJoe:  "On a broader point, I think one of the key problems in cavan football is a distinct lack of ambition. There is clearly a cohort of players in the current squad that are quite happy to coast along and enjoy the trappings and status associated with being county footballers and view making the cavan team as the pinnacle rather than actually being dead-set on achieving something meaningful in blue. In addition, a number of these guys convey the impression that they are doing their clubs a favour when they play for them. Look at those who bailed on their clubs recently, some of those clubs being in relegation dogfights. Big calls need to be made by Graham if he's to properly assert his authority and root out the bad apples in the group because with those guys front and centre we're going nowhere."
Good point.

On the lack of ambition, I'd also add to that the fact that our clubs perform very poorly when they get to the Ulster club series. I know Mullahoran had a good run last year, and the Gaels the year before that, but outside of those two examples, we've been very poor in Ulster. Michael Hannon had a great article about it in the Celt a few years ago.
When I was kicking a bit of ball in Cavan back in the day it always struck me as unusual that the county championship was seen as the Holy grail, and the Ulster club championship an annoying inconvenience.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 343 - 21/07/2019 11:15:13    2213889

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Watching the Super 8s game today, we were very unfortunate. It looks like the clear top 4 teams in the country are Dublin, Kerry, Donegal & Tyrone - we played two of those teams to end our season.

Meath vs Mayo today was a very poor game and I'm not being optimistic when I say we could have beaten either of those two sides in Croker today.

BreffniGuide (Cavan) - Posts: 357 - 21/07/2019 21:53:01    2214335

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Replying To BreffniGuide:  "Watching the Super 8s game today, we were very unfortunate. It looks like the clear top 4 teams in the country are Dublin, Kerry, Donegal & Tyrone - we played two of those teams to end our season.

Meath vs Mayo today was a very poor game and I'm not being optimistic when I say we could have beaten either of those two sides in Croker today."
Stop stop please no.

Benjy1000 (Cavan) - Posts: 69 - 21/07/2019 22:10:22    2214353

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Replying To BreffniGuide:  "Watching the Super 8s game today, we were very unfortunate. It looks like the clear top 4 teams in the country are Dublin, Kerry, Donegal & Tyrone - we played two of those teams to end our season.

Meath vs Mayo today was a very poor game and I'm not being optimistic when I say we could have beaten either of those two sides in Croker today."
What on earth gives you that idea?

IamADragon (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 21/07/2019 22:48:55    2214390

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Replying To BreffniGuide:  "Watching the Super 8s game today, we were very unfortunate. It looks like the clear top 4 teams in the country are Dublin, Kerry, Donegal & Tyrone - we played two of those teams to end our season.

Meath vs Mayo today was a very poor game and I'm not being optimistic when I say we could have beaten either of those two sides in Croker today."
You're correct but you'll get slaughtered for that post by the pessimists on here - remember, if we hadn't beaten Monaghan and Armagh, these guys would be telling us those teams are miles ahead of us. Some of them still are!!

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3620 - 22/07/2019 07:43:53    2214463

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Replying To cavanman47:  "You're correct but you'll get slaughtered for that post by the pessimists on here - remember, if we hadn't beaten Monaghan and Armagh, these guys would be telling us those teams are miles ahead of us. Some of them still are!!"
They are as are Roscommon Armagh Monaghan Kildare Cork Laois Galway Mayo I am struggling not to put Waterford Tipperary Clare and Westmeath before Cavan nothing to do with pessimists having been reading optimist posts it makes me wonder can they not see the blatant inadequacy in the team. Really it's very difficult to have a civil discussion with people that are such optimists. At some stage one has to draw a line when paying in the hope we might get a performance that justifies being a little bit optimistic going forward.
After watching our relegation and knowing the draw for the Ulster campaign the majority I would say were optimistic that Cavan could reach the Ulster final considering that Armagh were coming from Division 3 and Monaghan sadly for them were coming to the end of a very successful 6 years or so and injuries. All I could hear is Cavan have a great chance of reaching Ulster because they had an easy draw.
Looking at the Ulster set up would it not be better to seed Donegal and Tyrone and have two sections instead of having to play a qualifier every year before the 1/4 finals this way year on year teams like Armagh Cavan Monaghan Derry Down Fermanagh and Antrim would have an optimistic chance of reaching a simi final and maybe a final. For example if you have Donegal 1 Tyrone 2
Monaghan 3 Cavan 4
Fermanagh 5 Armagh 6
Derry 7 Down 8
Antrim 9 Bye
So after the first round which would be
3 plays bye 3 wins
4 plays 9
5 plays 8
6 plays 7
the second round
3 play's the winners of 6 & 7
winners of 4 & 9 play the winners of 5 & 8
Then the two winners are placed in a box and the first drawn plays Donegal and the second plays Tyrone this way you have a good chance of getting to a final. Teams are seeded on their league positions

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4495 - 22/07/2019 11:59:02    2214618

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