On the back of the momentous 4 Ulster u-21 in a row...why is it that the seniors haven't really kicked on and really challenged for the Ulster Senior Champoionship?, I mean really challenged. Afterall the team they emulated Tyrone, went on to great success back in the early 2000's. Im just asking the question whilst acknowledgeing the great work done by the various management teams, in putting pride back in the blue jersey, eg Peter Donnelly,Joe McCsrthty, Terry Hyland in bringing the management teams together, and the CB for putting the effort into the senior team in terms of moving club fixtures everywhichway to suit.

Just looking for opnion to see are we goin to realistically challenge for an Ulster and should we be?, or has the U21 winnging champions just been a sort of niche win?

cavancoop (Cavan) - Posts: 49 - 12/02/2015 12:40:32    1692842

I think we have an excellent chance of an Ulster title in the near future..why not... Donegal will struggle to retain it... Tyrone dont look great and Monaghan have a few ageing players... Our only draw-back is we are a bit on the small side and will not be fit to mix it physically with the above...but football wise and determanation is not a problem we have... If we can manage to get over Monaghan we will run it close..!!!

Sean66 (Cavan) - Posts: 440 - 12/02/2015 13:14:40    1692862

Not even in the next ten years will they win the Ulster Anglo Celt cup and this year Monaghan will knock them out in the first round.

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 12/02/2015 14:27:05    1692907

Ah, I too fell victim to the old "if you have good underage teams, senior success is only a matter of time." Well talk about learning the hard way. We are more of a Galway than a Tyrone I'm afraid. Some counties can do it, some can't. HOWEVER, there are undoubtedly green shoots and I realise it'll be a marathon not a sprint if we are ever going to get back to the top table. Our teams were functional and disciplined as opposed to talent filled. There was never a brand of football seen quite like what our u21's produced last year. Defensively meticulous. Lacking up front which was our undoing against the Dubs in the semi final.

But we have found some players who would mix it with the best of teams from the u21 campaigns, McKiernan, Clarke, McVeety, McLoughlin, and the likes of Moynagh, Faulkner and Hayes will surely make the grade eventually.

Ulster is levelling off big time. Tyrone and Donegal have slipped back, Monaghan are better than we are by one player and that's McManus, everything else being equal we are much of a muchness. So it's there for the taking should we unearth, or develop a marquee forward or two. Midfield is the best pairing in Ulster I think. Goalkeeper position is debatable.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 12/02/2015 17:01:15    1693004

Will we win Ulster within the next 5 years ? Who knows , it's easier said than done . Can we win Ulster ? With a bit of luck why not ! I don't think we're good enough up top yet to be able to go on a run from say the preliminary round and beat all the best teams to win the cup but if the draw is favourable then we have a chance . This year is a favourable draw - home game against our nearest and dearest anything can happen . If we do beat Monaghan we will be favourites to reach the final . After that it's all on the day .
I don't think it's fair on players to expect success from the U21 wins by comparing to Tyrone . Our lack of senior success is not a reflection of our U21 teams and those achievements shouldn't be undermined . We basically started from scratch with those U21s . Tyrone were a top team in the 90s . Were robbed of a replay in the 95 AI final . Were basically shafted in the 96 semi and had one of the best forwards in Peter Canavan ever to play the game . Before their great U21s came along they would have been regarded as one of the favourites to come out of Ulster anyway - not a bad starting platform ! Then you have someone like Stephen O'Neill , another all time great , coming through to add more firepower to an already impressive forward unit .
We have a brilliant squad at the moment and there is real competition for that jersey . And those U21s continue to strengthen us . We need to be patient , don't lose sight of what's important , and keep doing things the right way . When the top drawer forwards do come through we should have an already high platform for them to operate from .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 12/02/2015 18:00:52    1693052

I for one would like to see the u21's abandon the strategy of the last few years. Might seem like madness, but there is method to my madness. The last few years we've stuck rigidly to a defensive, functional philosophy to the detriment of attacking football and it cost us an All Ireland last year against the Dubs. Young Hayes and Dillon were doing right work on that Dublin full back line until we hauled everyone back and tried to defend a precarious lead. Another point in that game and I think it would have been ours.

It would be great to see a bit of liberalisation this year as I think we could win Ulster without resorting to the negativity. Anyway, as good and all as underage success is, it's not what we want. We want our seniors to be pushing on and lifting Ulster titles and playing in All Ireland semi finals.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 13/02/2015 20:59:09    1693392

Ned_Stormcrow
County: Cavan
Posts: 532


I don't think it will happen with whats leading the ship, Not sure what McHales input is to the current set up so take away McHale what have the rest to offer nothing to be cruelly honest. Looks like we might now stay in division 2 after taking that point from Roscommon and the others taking points from each other . I expect we will get no change from Down Kildare or Galway but how we get on with Westmeath is another story considering they have picked up points all ready.
It would be nice to think there is a senior title in the current player's but sadly there is not. We need another 6 or so over 6 footers and build them up and then we might be a team to be reckoned with going forward.

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 14/02/2015 09:56:56    1693418

Mowbar, why don't you just go 'support' someone else. Cavan clearly make you miserable and I know I for one am sick and tired of reading your comments. I'm confident we can give ulster a rattle this year.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1483 - 14/02/2015 13:30:48    1693446

fredflint
County: Cavan
Posts: 443

1693446
Mowbar, why don't you just go 'support' someone else. Cavan clearly make you miserable and I know I for one am sick and tired of reading your comments. I'm confident we can give ulster a rattle this year.


fredflint if my opinions upsets you I think you best stop reading them for I am telling it as I see it and thats my opinion. You have a lot of opinions and you try and bully your way but hey I just ignore them like you should mine isn't that easy. Here try this Cavan will win Ulster yes Cavan will win Sam now are you happy wake up will ye and try and look beyond the shirt

mowbar (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 14/02/2015 20:37:48    1693572

Mowbar, do you go to Cavan matches? If so, why? If not, why bother with HS commentry ?

ramor101 (Cavan) - Posts: 289 - 15/02/2015 11:23:20    1693645

Mowbar , maybe it's just the way you word your posts but you do come across as very negative . I'm sure it's not the case but you sound genuinely disappointed that it "looks like we might now stay in division 2" . And coming out with statements like "not even in the next ten years will they win the Ulster Anglo Celt cup" make you sound like the archetypical town crank . How do you know what will happen in 10 years . You're commenting on what individuals , that are currently children , will be doing and not doing in 10 years . If you truly believe our next generation are not worth investing in maybe you do need a new sport or a new county .
Ned , don't agree with your assessment of last years U21s . I think the management got the tactics right . They identified Dublin's main threats and kept them quiet . Dublin resorted to taking pot shots at us with their half back runners - they had a high wide count but the was the percentages risk we took . Joe Dillon was black carded and this greatly reduced our attacking threat . It was a poor decision by the ref and it was from a passage where we were actually on the attack . It was just a bad ball in that led to the incident . We did launch a few attacks in the latter stages but lacked a cutting edge or a bit of composure . The referee also made a few more questionable decisions that cost us . There were also no guarantees that we would have beaten a very good Roscommon team in the final . Indeed the Rossies may have been better served if they had taken a leaf out of Cavan's book for the final - their gung ho approach may have "cost them an All Ireland" .
All our players deserve the best chance we can give them at silverware and that includes the underage teams . There will be days when things don't go well , when all out doesn't work , so it's important players can fall back on a system of play they know and are comfortable with in order to regroup , stem the flow , and get motoring again . Tactics without talent is stale but talent without tactics is futile .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 15/02/2015 13:37:17    1693660

Ulster has the most Counties in Division 1 this year (4) then any other Province, so that says something. Monaghan a very tough test but Cavan can beat them.

On the other side of the draw ,Derry should get a lift from Slaughneill reaching the All Ireland Club final. They have underperformed in the championship for a couple of years

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 15/02/2015 17:51:25    1693764

Tyrone four Ulster's in a row at under 21 (2000, 2001,2002, 2003)were followed by a period of dominance at Anglo Celt level, that began in 2007.
To expect the successful under 21's in Cavan to replicate their under age success with senior results immediately at Anglo-Celt level, as you are claiming Tyrone did is not borne out by the facts.

notimpressed (UK) - Posts: 98 - 16/02/2015 10:56:25    1693942

Don't be comparing Cavan to Tyrone,Tyrone were winning Ulster titles at senior & underage consistently for 20 years as well as winning underage All Irelands before they won the Holy Grail in 2003.
Tyrones record from 1984 until their first senior All Ireland in 2003 reads like this, 6 Ulster minor titles(88,93,97,98,01 & 03),2 Minor All Irelands (98 &01),7 Ulster U21 (90,91,92,00,01,02 & 03) 4 All Ireland u21 (91,92,00 & 01)& 7 Ulster Senior Championships (84,86,89,95,96,01 & 03).

As for can Cavan win an Ulster in the next 5 years I do believe they will.
Did many think in 2010, after their defeat to Armagh, that Donegal would be capable of winning an ulster never mind an AI in the following years?

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 16/02/2015 11:29:34    1693959

Donegal had won the Division 1 National League in 07, so weren't a bad team. Karl Lacey had 2 All Star before McGuinness took over. They were in disarray in 2010 but their U21's won Ulster and beaten in All Ireland Final, Murphy missing a penalty in the last minute..

McGuinness got rid of the party boy image they had.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 16/02/2015 14:30:29    1694052

FoolsGold
County: Cavan
Posts: 1121

1694052 Donegal had won the Division 1 National League in 07, so weren't a bad team. Karl Lacey had 2 All Star before McGuinness took over. They were in disarray in 2010 but their U21's won Ulster and beaten in All Ireland Final, Murphy missing a penalty in the last minute..

True Foolsgold, Donegal had lots of talented footballers down through the years,Kevin Cassidy also had an All Star by the time McGuinness came along and coaxed him out of retirement.Though after their 2007 National league success the team went into freefall, Co Board messed about with the management,dropped out of Div 1 and didn't win another championship match until McGuinness took over.If you had've asked any Donegal supporter walking out of Crossmaglen in 2010 would they win an Ulster in 5 years their answer would most likely have being No.Don't forget McGuiness was turned down for the managers job previously and in 2010 was the only candidate for the job,so it was maybe by more chance than design that got Donegal their success since 2011.
Cavan on the other hand are working from a much more stable base,a manager in place for a number of years who was previously over the U21's,consolidating their place in Div 3 before gaining promotion to Div 2,won a few championship matches,getting to Croke Park to play championship matches,drink culture gone (hopefully),lads now wearing the jersey with pride and willing to fight to the end.So even though we may not be playing to everyones liking at the moment I don't see why Cavan can't win an Ulster Senior title in the next 5 years.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 16/02/2015 15:46:03    1694087

Yeah its a more stable base

Few posts about lack of firepower at U21 level over the years. I think this years U21 team has potentially the best FF line of past 4 winnings teams. Hayes, Conor Madden and Ryan Connolly. 3 excellent forwards. They will be well tested though against the Donegal backs in the championship.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 16/02/2015 16:17:48    1694110

I agree we don't seem to have what you might call a marque forward at the moment, although in 2013 we had the second highest scorer in the championship and in 2012 we had a forward on a shortlist of 3 for the Cadburys U21 player of the championship (I know he's left the panel).Aside from that the current Slaughneil team who have qualified for the All Ireland club final wouldn't have a marque forward,their total of 1-14 (15 scores)yesterday were scored by 8 players.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 16/02/2015 17:42:34    1694166

Yeah, maybe of the lads that have came through from U21 might not have been fully ready for Senior County, no reason why they can't in the future. Bernard Brogan didn't break into the Dublin team until he was 24.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 16/02/2015 18:17:11    1694183

Cavan can win Ulster for sure . You's won't have to wait to long I'd say . The draw has fallen nicely for Cavan this year . Ulster can be very difficult though . I've watched a fair bit of Cavan in last few years ( usually beating us at U21s); there are some good players there. This year , as stated would be a glorious opportunity for you's !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 17/02/2015 20:49:57    1694565